Star swimmer Connor Hoppe, a commit to the defending NCAA Champions from Cal, has been ruled ineligible for the Sac Joaquin Section Championship meet, which is the highest championship meet for high school swimmers in his area, according to the Modesto Bee. Hoppe is the defending section champion in the 100 breaststroke, and had a chance at getting the National high School Record.
The rule that got Hoppe is a notorious one in California. He raced at the 2014 NCSA Junior Nationals representing the Clovis Swim Club, which coming in mid-March was after the start of the CIF swimming season.
The Sac Joaquin Section has a rule that during the high school season, swimmers can not compete for their club teams. They can still race at USA Swimming meets, but must do so unattached.
According to the Bee, Hoppe thought he would be okay given that he hadn’t started racing for Golden Valley High School yet. His understanding was that he just couldn’t compete for both teams at the same time, and that since he skipped his high school team’s first two dual meets, he was still in the clear to represent the Clovis Swim Club.
According to bylaw 2600.10 b in the section constitution “Once the official start date for the Section is determined (February 10), individuals FROM THAT POINT, must compete unattached in outside competitions.”
“I don’t think I have an option; it’s a clear violation,” Sac-Joaquin commissioner Pete Saco said to the Bee. “That rule has been around since 1981. It’s a violation.”
Hoppe and his brother Cameron have both been ruled ineligible to compete at the Sac Joaquin Section meet. What really makes this situation unique is that in other sections, the rule has remained the same: namely, if a swimmer has not yet competed for their high school team, they can still swim for their club team, regardless of the official start of the season. The majority of the swimmers who train with Clovis swim in a different section, meaning that they were unaffected by this new rule that is specific to Sac-Joaquin, which could have led to the confusion about what is, and isn’t, allowed.
This rule, and others in other sections, are in place in an effort by CIF federations to maintain some sanctity of high school athletics. The goal is to force swimmers to put at least some focus on their high school teams during the high school season.
Hoppe, while he says he did the same thing last year and knows many others who have done the same without any issue, is taking the high road.
“It’s disappointing, but at the same time it’s good motivation to get better,” Connor Hoppe said. “We still have an appeal on Monday and hopefully the decision will be overturned. All my coaches were unaware of the rule. The Sac-Joaquin Section is the only one that has this rule. It’s not like I was trying to break it. I had no idea.”
Were Hoppe’s appeal to be unsuccessful, it could be a missed shot at a potential High School National Record. He swam a 53.12 at NCSA’s, which is faster than the currently-recognized record of 53.24 done by Andrew Seliskar of Thomas Jefferson High School in Virginia in February. The overall National High School Record is 52.92, belonging to Jacob Molacek.
Hoppe would have simply had to come close to his best time at the Section meet to break the National Record.
Hoppe was a late-comer to swimming, switching over from basketball. He was a 1:02 as a freshman, a :57 as a sophomore, and a :54 as a junior to break the section record.
“In previous years, kids were allowed to swim attached up until the start of their high school meets, but in 2014, they quietly changed it to Feb 10th, regardless of HS schedule,” a local swim parent said of the new rule. “You would not have known it unless you read the CIF rules carefully. My son’s club almost made the same mistake. Most club coaches do not keep updated with CIF rule changes year to year. High school coaches may know the rule change but don’t have any control over how kids sign up for their club meets. Most of the time the parents or swimmers have to be on their toes. Makes no sense to make it so difficult. Time to change the rule or abolish it all together.”
I coach HS in the Sac-Joaquin Section and was fortunate enough to watch Connor set the National Record today in the 100 Breast. I did not know about the controversy until tonight while I searched for a video of the swim and stumbled upon this article.
I have club swimmers on my HS team and we have set up a system with the club swimmers and coaches to allow as many swimmers to participate in our program as possible. We have time trials and select our team on the time trials (after the 1st two weeks of practice). We have limited pool time and space, so when we select our teams, we allow our club kids to continue to practice… Read more »
It has been great fun reading these posts. Definitely some “passion” behind Mr. Cianciolo’s posts, and some very controlled and reasonable responses to his passionate views.
I agree that USA Swimming benefits the quality of the HS Swimming product. It is true that very few HS swimmers in Texas 5A Swimming can make it to the Texas State Meet in an individual event without USA Swimming background. By the same token, HS Swim Teams are made of of many different types of kids. Some are USA “stars”, some train doubles, (HS AM and USA PM), some only swim HS once per day. Over 90% of our Varsity swimmers train USA in the PM, and HS, with the Team in the… Read more »
Kevin
The main theme throughout this post is extremely simple, you keep using the word “we” and are stressing about working with others, and trying to fit their agendas into the high school teams agenda, now you are a guy I can work with. You stood up and used your real name, assigning ownership to your post. I am still real glad that my daughter lives in a Florida, but if we had the rules Texas has, I would be searching out a guy like you to work with. We all have these rules….we must follow, or we must try and change them if we do not like them, but we still must follow them. When we get people working… Read more »
It’s really simple to enter a team when swimming HS in CA. You enter the swimmers as attached as normal, when you arrive at the meet you contact admin and have them all unattach. As long as this is done before the swimmer swim’s there first event it’s legal. Let’s not make this difficult, it’s a well known rule in CA HS swimming, just swim unattached.
I am with you here, if it’s this easy, but their seems to be several different versions of this same over governed rule depending on what section in California you live in. Now I do see this as a problem. I have to point out just how much respect I have for this team and young athlete. They have taken the complete high ground here, even so far as to post here what happened. With their attitude about this, I am sure they all will be more then just okay, many many praises to them.
But in the opening argument on this article, Braden did point out the differences in the rules per section, and that in other sections this… Read more »
In the DC area we have no such rules. in the private schools you just have to swim two dual meets to swim in the championship meets. Public schools have a little bit stricter but its still relaxed. Matthew hirschberger showed up like 2 weeks before metro’s and competed for georgetown prep after swimming like 1 dual meet.
Do we think it is a coincidence that area is also a hot-bed of swimming talent? The kids get the best of both worlds – focused preparation for a multitude of events by professional coaches and the thrill of school representation without compromising long term goals. If it was really about what is best for the kids, all high school federations would adopt this rule instead of forcing kids to choose. Instead, they protect egos and “sanctity of the team” with bureaucrazy and ultimatums.
CHESTROCKWELL,
Well said!
Thanks to many many great posts here on this article, I have been much more informed on some states high school rules. I knew about Texas and their “must be a teacher” rule, and California’s “unattached” rule. I must say…..I have never been more proud of my states high school rules then I am today hearing these horror stories. In Florida, the FHSAA may have some flaws…..but nothing like what I have read here. We have many club coaches coaching high school swim teams, so many in fact you could mistake a district or regional meet for a local USA Swimming meet, same kids, same coaches on deck. I too see high value in this compared… Read more »
Your attitude is exactly why the regulations are put in place. High School athletics have done just fine over the past decades and have provided countless numbers of students the opportunity to compete and be part of a team. One of your posts mentions your daughters “future high school coach”. When your daughter gets to high school, you might be very surprised with the amount of “fast” high school swimmers who have never had ANY formal training.
Perhaps high school swimming isn’t for everyone. My family has experienced good/bad club coaches and good/bad high school coaches. If an athlete chooses to be part of a program, they should respect the program and the rules the program has in place. High… Read more »
My 12 year old daughter would be top 3 in all of California high school swimming, but thanks for guessing……23 second 50, 51 second 100, and 1:53 second 200, 5:01 second 500, and this is at 12 years old….like I said, thanks for your incredibly knowledgable post on how good non club swimmers are. Nothing is a surprise to me, it is all fully calculated and investigated, even down to whom her future high school coach will be.
I just looked through the psych sheet for the California high school state championship meets, and their are several divisions of schools my 12 year old daughter would probably win out right, but I was wrong in my first assumption of 3 overall…..more like 6 or 7 based on the psych sheet…..but she still is almost two years away from even entering high school. I use real numbers and stats to back up my words, heck…..I am the only one that will use my real name here. If a non club swimmer has the ability, this is the key statement, “has the ability” to earn…..”earn” being the key word as well, a place on the team, and on the A… Read more »
Your daughters time of 23.83 is a great time – no doubt. According to the USA Swimming website she would be ranked 23rd of 12-18 year olds in California from 9/2013 to 5/2014. Most high school athletes are not members of USA Swimming, therefore their times do not appear in the USA Swimming calculations. Even if they were members, the meet would have to be observed to appear in the database. High School athletes are placed in events that their coach deems will help the team the most, not necessarily the athletes best event. Many club swimmers are put in the specialty events (fly, breast, back). Athletes can only swim two individual events. I know a lot of surfers, water… Read more »
Also, the psych sheets you are referring to are for one CIF section. There are 10 CIF sections across California.
I agree with much of this…..and I had a great talk today with what will more then likely be my child’s high school coach. Heck, he could be even be one of her teachers. I think he and I are in absolute and complete agreement. I think we will have no problems with this future partnership. In fact, I will go on record saying I was highly impressed…..blown away may be more like it.
Everyone is in a different situation, different goals and agendas. I for one have never pushed my agenda on anyone else. I have had others push theirs on me…but never the other way around. I do not stand pat when someone, anyone with an over… Read more »
This is not about my daughter “respect the program” this is about the over regulated rules in our nations high school programs. It’s about people that I feel are absolutely clueless making decisions that effect the kids whom poured their hearts and souls Into this sport…..and any other sport or after school activity for that matter, such as music, academics, and art, people like you are trying to force us….the parents of these kids that have sacrificed much more then you could ever imagine, into a socialist program where even the kids that do not have talent can be rewarded. It’s almost like it is not good enough they can make the team….it’s not good enough that without the top… Read more »
Mark, your blanket statements characterizing high school coaches are grossly inaccurate and unfair. Many of my fellow teacher/coaches were elite high school athletes, participated in club sports, and went on to compete at the college level. As professional educators, we are required to continue to take graduate classes and attend workshops every year in an attempt to continuously improve our practice. Why would our approach to our coaching be any different? At our local coaching clinics I see a mix of high school and club coaches. We’re lucky here in southern Maine to have the first-of-its kind Michael Phelps Skill Center, which hosts clinics given by some members of the NBAC staff multiple times throughout the year.
Here are the high school all-american rankings from last year: http://www.inswim.net/allam13.html
Your daughter while being an outstanding 12 year old, doesn’t achieve the top-100 All-American Status in the 50 or 100. Both those lists have 16+ swimmers from CA on them. CA high school swimming is by far the most competitive in the US. The top section meets are faster than any state championship.
Chill out….
God I am really starting to appreciate our local high school swimming coaches, I may just have to send each of them a “thank you” card for having so much more common sense then the apparent national average.
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1482&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US
Here is the link to what “respect the program” is referring too, you will see that almost every single one of these athletes made the times we are talking about at major, major USA Swim meets or California state championships, not one single time in the category we are talking about was made at a high school meet. Most of the 23 made those times at Nation swim meets.
High school meets are not sanctioned and are not in the SWIMS database. Some leagues championships may be observed and only USA Swimming members will have their times loaded into SWIMS. CIF section championships are observed and USA Swimming members can have their times loaded into SWIMs. Most high school athletes are not USA Swimming members and will never appear in the USA Swimming database regardless of time. There are over 1.7 million high school students in California. USA Swimming membership as a whole is about 400,000.
High School teams need depth to succeed. The best athlete cannot win a relay, or win duel meets or win the league championship. Even a handful of good club swimmers cannot win these… Read more »
You have changed your argument to fit your new agenda. I am sorry I hurt your feelings, but a club coach you are not…..now you talk about winning, well once again you cannot have it both ways, and once again I find myself praising all four of our local high school coaches that allow the club athletes (if they even want) to train with their club during the high school season, because common sense prevails in this part of the country. Lane space, more attention to that non club swimmer can be given, local swimming dynamics, local club dynamics, the fact that they know and understand that the athletes club coach knows how to tapper their own kids better, the… Read more »
I have no agenda. You obviously have a very small picture of how high school programs across the country operate. My kids California club team was attended by athletes from a dozen different high schools within at least 8 different school districts. Each high school coach had their own rules. One coach MADE his high school swimmers join his club team if they wanted to be on the high school team. Other coaches made the athletes swim high school practices ONLY during high school season. Some coaches let the athletes choose between HS practices or club practices. Some coaches let the athletes do both. One coach told a couple of club swimmers that it would be better for them to… Read more »
You have made some very good points along the way sticking up for the part time high school swim coach. This last post is very good, but……at the core root of my gripe, is.
1) if you are a high school coach, you should not dictate that all of your team MUST swim all of their practices with the high school team, especially if they are getting better than or equal too training from their club. Especially if it is apparent they have had the proper training long before you met them. This is selfish and those of us that understand, know the real reason why you are doing this, and it does not have anything to with team building… Read more »
Virginia is pretty chill as well. I’m not sure what exactly the public school rules are (I think there’s usually an expectation that club swimmers make one high school practice per week). I do know that the private school school association has a rule where a swimmer has to have had competed in half of the school’s meets to be eligible in the state championship meet, and cut times have to have been achieved during a high school meet. I think those are fair.
Pretty simple to unattach yourself. Lesson learned. Sure there are an abundance of rules & regulations, some stupid. I feel bad for this kid, and perhaps this will help open peoples eyes some and perhaps lobby for a future change. What about the Gonzales boy that was kicked out of Sunset League finals yesterday – what happened there? The police escorted him out.
Well, yes and no…..one must have understanding of the various programs used to enter USA Swimming meets. Let’s just say that the current USA Swimming OME process is a little restricted in its ability to enter entire teams “unattached” and unless you set up your TM “Team Manager” to mirror your team with both your club code and unattached, you will struggle to enter more then one athlete unattached at a time. Anyone with extensive knowledge of these programs please chime in with your input, I could always learn more myself.
Bottom line – the CIF rules allowed him to compete “unattached” without penalty. His CIF section allowed him to compete “unattached” without penalty. Who benefits by having him swim “attached” – his CLUB. Lesson learned – club coaches do not always know more than the high school swim coach!!!
Unfortunately your screen name says it all…the rules as I now know them thanks to the extremely knowledgeable experts on this board, lead my to believe they are BS to put it bluntly, but if you know that you are in a situation where you are exposed to overly governed rules, like California and Texas, then it is always better to play it safe. Unfortunately I believe the very OME entry process for NSCA type meets makes it very hard for a club coach to enter an entire team unattached, you either enter individuals unattached or you enter the USA club team as a whole. I think this is where the mistake happened, although I always can learn from being… Read more »
Once you get to the meet, it’s fairly easy for individuals to unattach. Our team attached all of the high school swimmers at a meet during high school season so the affected kids went to admin and unattached the day of the meet. Our LSC also corrects results for affiliation changes. USA Swimming allows athletes to “unattach at meets” but not “attach”.
Thanks,
Great explanation. My first experience with California swimmers came at this years NASA Jr National Cup meet in Clearwater, I actually timed lane 5 for finals, saw front row the American record and several NAG records set. That is where I first started to see and understand the California Unattached rule. I also have been doing the entries this season for CAT, the Clearwater Aquatic Team, and it has been a learn as you go volunteer job, since I do it for the kids I am always looking to get better. I did notice that when using the USA Swimming OME, that their were only two options. One enter the qualifying member athletes as a team using the team… Read more »
Rules, rules, rules….In Texas HS Swimming we have the UIL (University Interscholastic League). There are a great deal of rules in the UIL, general rules for all HS Sports and specific rules for Swimming & Diving. Some of the rules seem antiquated and unfair, but they are the rules and we are to follow them or pay the price.
Every single Texas HS Coach (Swimming and all of the other sports) is responsible for the rules in the UIL Constitution and By-laws.
Every Texas HS Coach must be a full-time school employee, in order to be a HS Coach. the only exceptions to this are in “individual” sports, such as Swimming, Tennis, Golf, etc. Those full-time employee “exceptions”… Read more »
Great post!! Most people here are complaining about the rule, not the action and seem to feel that the appeal will be granted because they disagree with the “dumb” rule. I agree it’s not a great rule but he did break it so if I was the on the appeals board…
“Some of the rules seem antiquated and unfair, but they are the rules and we are to follow them or pay the price.”
He said it, not me. If a rule is antiquated and unfair, and you decide to follow just because they are rules, I have not much respect for you. By that type of thinking, women would have never been allowed to vote, slavery would not have been abolished, and most importantly, alcohol would have been deemed illegal.
Sometimes, you’ve got to challenge the status quo.
“I don’t accept the status quo. I do accept Visa, MasterCard, or American Express.” – Stephen Colbert
Now, I don’t think most of us actually think that he’ll win the… Read more »
CalSwimFan,
You can fight to change an antiquated rule but if you break it, please don’t expect to get a pass…at least until the rule is changed.
I just don’t like following unjust rules. I admit that my post was pretty much completely irrelevant. Mostly because Connor didn’t even know the rule existed and that he didn’t break it knowingly. If he did, that’d be bad ass.
“One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” – Martin Luther King Jr.
Back to your point, I don’t think many of us expects him to get a free pass b/c it’s a dumb rule. But I’m sure at least some of us on here hope that the appeals board lets the kid compete in this meet. Also, another thing to note… Read more »
That’s the danger in relying upon Colbert for your guiding principles. While we’re quoting entertainers, “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.”
HS athletic associations are the absolute worst in all of sport. Worse even than the NCAA. Petty bureaucrats making petty rules to exert power over young athletes that just want to have fun and compete.
No wonder that in all sports except football, club sports have far surpassed high schools in developing athletes. Gymnastics, volleyball, baseball, swimming, basketball, etc. The best athletes go to the clubs for better coaching, better competition and less moronic rules.
You know, Missy Franklin would be DQ’d in IL HS swimming for wearing jewelry, which she wore at the Olympics.
Sak1309 – she’s be dq’ed in any state, though there’s a pending proposal to eliminate the no jewelry rule in high school swimming.
Club sports develop athletes at a faster rate because they practice year round instead of for three months out of the year, not because of the rules.
At the end of each swim season (winter here), I support everyone who is going on to play baseball or softball, lacrosse, tennis, or track in the springtime. However, I also tell them that if they enjoy the sport of swimming and want to excel, that they will have to make the decision to train year round with one of the local USS or YMCA teams. Some play a club sport year round while also competing in other high school sports, but obviously that’s tough for a variety of reasons and limits time… Read more »
Our Summer League DQ’s for Jewelry. Yeah, the 8yo who just swam a :30 in the 25 free can be DQ’d for earrings.